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Is `x >> pure y` equivalent to `liftM (const y) x`


Unlike a Functor, a Monad can change shape?Why should Applicative be a superclass of Monad?Is there a monad that doesn't have a corresponding monad transformer (except IO)?Composition of compositions in HaskellHaskell: Flaw in the description of applicative functor laws in the hackage Control.Applicative article?: it says Applicative determines FunctorTo what extent are Applicative/Monad instances uniquely determined?Is this property of a functor stronger than a monad?Are applicative functors composed with the applicative style really independent?bind can be composed of fmap and join, so do we have to use monadic functions a -> m b?Do the monadic liftM and the functorial fmap have to be equivalent?













10















The two expressions



y >> pure x
liftM (const x) y


have the same type signature in Haskell.
I was curious whether they were equivalent, but I could neither produce a proof of the fact nor a counter example against it.



If we rewrite the two expressions so that we can eliminate the x and y then the question becomes whether the two following functions are equivalent



flip (>>) . pure
liftM . const


Note that both these functions have type Monad m => a -> m b -> m a.



I used the laws that Haskell gives for monad, applicatives, and functors to transform both statements into various equivalent forms, but I was not able to produce a sequence of equivalences between the two.



For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows



y >>= const (pure x)
y *> pure x
(id <$ y) <*> pure x
fmap (const id) y <*> pure x


and liftM (const x) y can be rewritten as follows



fmap (const x) y
pure (const x) <*> y


None of these spring out to me as necessarily equivalent, but I cannot think of any cases where they would not be equivalent.










share|improve this question




























    10















    The two expressions



    y >> pure x
    liftM (const x) y


    have the same type signature in Haskell.
    I was curious whether they were equivalent, but I could neither produce a proof of the fact nor a counter example against it.



    If we rewrite the two expressions so that we can eliminate the x and y then the question becomes whether the two following functions are equivalent



    flip (>>) . pure
    liftM . const


    Note that both these functions have type Monad m => a -> m b -> m a.



    I used the laws that Haskell gives for monad, applicatives, and functors to transform both statements into various equivalent forms, but I was not able to produce a sequence of equivalences between the two.



    For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows



    y >>= const (pure x)
    y *> pure x
    (id <$ y) <*> pure x
    fmap (const id) y <*> pure x


    and liftM (const x) y can be rewritten as follows



    fmap (const x) y
    pure (const x) <*> y


    None of these spring out to me as necessarily equivalent, but I cannot think of any cases where they would not be equivalent.










    share|improve this question


























      10












      10








      10








      The two expressions



      y >> pure x
      liftM (const x) y


      have the same type signature in Haskell.
      I was curious whether they were equivalent, but I could neither produce a proof of the fact nor a counter example against it.



      If we rewrite the two expressions so that we can eliminate the x and y then the question becomes whether the two following functions are equivalent



      flip (>>) . pure
      liftM . const


      Note that both these functions have type Monad m => a -> m b -> m a.



      I used the laws that Haskell gives for monad, applicatives, and functors to transform both statements into various equivalent forms, but I was not able to produce a sequence of equivalences between the two.



      For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows



      y >>= const (pure x)
      y *> pure x
      (id <$ y) <*> pure x
      fmap (const id) y <*> pure x


      and liftM (const x) y can be rewritten as follows



      fmap (const x) y
      pure (const x) <*> y


      None of these spring out to me as necessarily equivalent, but I cannot think of any cases where they would not be equivalent.










      share|improve this question
















      The two expressions



      y >> pure x
      liftM (const x) y


      have the same type signature in Haskell.
      I was curious whether they were equivalent, but I could neither produce a proof of the fact nor a counter example against it.



      If we rewrite the two expressions so that we can eliminate the x and y then the question becomes whether the two following functions are equivalent



      flip (>>) . pure
      liftM . const


      Note that both these functions have type Monad m => a -> m b -> m a.



      I used the laws that Haskell gives for monad, applicatives, and functors to transform both statements into various equivalent forms, but I was not able to produce a sequence of equivalences between the two.



      For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows



      y >>= const (pure x)
      y *> pure x
      (id <$ y) <*> pure x
      fmap (const id) y <*> pure x


      and liftM (const x) y can be rewritten as follows



      fmap (const x) y
      pure (const x) <*> y


      None of these spring out to me as necessarily equivalent, but I cannot think of any cases where they would not be equivalent.







      haskell monads functor applicative






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      duplode

      23.1k44987




      23.1k44987










      asked 3 hours ago









      10000000001000000000

      464214




      464214






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          10














          Yes they are the same



          Let's start with flip (>>) . pure, which is the pointfree version of x >> pure y you provide:



          flip (>>) . pure


          It is the case that flip (>>) is just (=<<) . const so we can rewrite this as:



          ((=<<) . const) . pure


          Since function composition ((.)) is associative we can write this as:



          (=<<) . (const . pure)


          We can rewrite const . pure as fmap pure . const:



          (=<<) . (fmap pure . const)


          Now we associate again:



          ((=<<) . fmap pure) . const


          Since (=<<) has type



          (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b


          we know fmap pure must be a subtype of Monad m => c -> (a -> m b). If we unify this with it's type of



          fmap pure :: (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a)


          We get Monad m => (a -> b) -> (a -> m b). Meaning our functor is (a ->). Since (.) is fmap over the functor (a ->) we can replace our fmap with (.).



          ((=<<) . (.) pure) . const


          ((=<<) . (.) pure) is the definition for liftM1 so we can substitute:



          liftM . const


          And that is the goal. The two are the same.




          1: The definition of liftM is liftM f m1 = do x1 <- m1; return (f x1) , we can desugar the do into liftM f m1 = m1 >>= return . f. We can flip the (>>=) for liftM f m1 = return . f =<< m1 and elide the m1 to get liftM f = (return . f =<<) a little pointfree magic and we get liftM = (=<<) . (.) return






          share|improve this answer
































            9














            The other answer gets there eventually, but it takes a long-winded route. All that is actually needed are the definitions of liftM, const, and a single monad law: m1 >> m2 and m1 >>= _ -> m2 must be semantically identical. (Indeed, this is the default implementation of (>>), and it is rare to override it.) Then:



            liftM (const x) y
            = definition of liftM*
            y >>= z -> pure (const x z)
            = definition of const
            y >>= z -> pure x
            = monad law
            y >> pure x


            * Okay, okay, so the actual definition of liftM uses return instead of pure. Whatever.






            share|improve this answer

























            • Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

              – chi
              1 hour ago






            • 1





              @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

              – Daniel Wagner
              59 mins ago







            • 1





              That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

              – dfeuer
              19 mins ago


















            2














            One more possible route, exploiting the applicative laws:




            For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows [...]



            fmap (const id) y <*> pure x



            That amounts to...



            fmap (const id) y <*> pure x
            pure ($ x) <*> fmap (const id) y -- interchange law of applicatives
            ($ x) <$> fmap (const id) y -- fmap in terms of <*>
            fmap (($ x) . const id) y -- composition law of functors
            fmap (const x) y


            ... which, as you noted, is the same as liftM (const x) y.



            That this route requires only applicative laws and not monad ones reflects how (*>) (another name for (>>)) is an Applicative method.






            share|improve this answer
























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              3 Answers
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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              10














              Yes they are the same



              Let's start with flip (>>) . pure, which is the pointfree version of x >> pure y you provide:



              flip (>>) . pure


              It is the case that flip (>>) is just (=<<) . const so we can rewrite this as:



              ((=<<) . const) . pure


              Since function composition ((.)) is associative we can write this as:



              (=<<) . (const . pure)


              We can rewrite const . pure as fmap pure . const:



              (=<<) . (fmap pure . const)


              Now we associate again:



              ((=<<) . fmap pure) . const


              Since (=<<) has type



              (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b


              we know fmap pure must be a subtype of Monad m => c -> (a -> m b). If we unify this with it's type of



              fmap pure :: (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a)


              We get Monad m => (a -> b) -> (a -> m b). Meaning our functor is (a ->). Since (.) is fmap over the functor (a ->) we can replace our fmap with (.).



              ((=<<) . (.) pure) . const


              ((=<<) . (.) pure) is the definition for liftM1 so we can substitute:



              liftM . const


              And that is the goal. The two are the same.




              1: The definition of liftM is liftM f m1 = do x1 <- m1; return (f x1) , we can desugar the do into liftM f m1 = m1 >>= return . f. We can flip the (>>=) for liftM f m1 = return . f =<< m1 and elide the m1 to get liftM f = (return . f =<<) a little pointfree magic and we get liftM = (=<<) . (.) return






              share|improve this answer





























                10














                Yes they are the same



                Let's start with flip (>>) . pure, which is the pointfree version of x >> pure y you provide:



                flip (>>) . pure


                It is the case that flip (>>) is just (=<<) . const so we can rewrite this as:



                ((=<<) . const) . pure


                Since function composition ((.)) is associative we can write this as:



                (=<<) . (const . pure)


                We can rewrite const . pure as fmap pure . const:



                (=<<) . (fmap pure . const)


                Now we associate again:



                ((=<<) . fmap pure) . const


                Since (=<<) has type



                (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b


                we know fmap pure must be a subtype of Monad m => c -> (a -> m b). If we unify this with it's type of



                fmap pure :: (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a)


                We get Monad m => (a -> b) -> (a -> m b). Meaning our functor is (a ->). Since (.) is fmap over the functor (a ->) we can replace our fmap with (.).



                ((=<<) . (.) pure) . const


                ((=<<) . (.) pure) is the definition for liftM1 so we can substitute:



                liftM . const


                And that is the goal. The two are the same.




                1: The definition of liftM is liftM f m1 = do x1 <- m1; return (f x1) , we can desugar the do into liftM f m1 = m1 >>= return . f. We can flip the (>>=) for liftM f m1 = return . f =<< m1 and elide the m1 to get liftM f = (return . f =<<) a little pointfree magic and we get liftM = (=<<) . (.) return






                share|improve this answer



























                  10












                  10








                  10







                  Yes they are the same



                  Let's start with flip (>>) . pure, which is the pointfree version of x >> pure y you provide:



                  flip (>>) . pure


                  It is the case that flip (>>) is just (=<<) . const so we can rewrite this as:



                  ((=<<) . const) . pure


                  Since function composition ((.)) is associative we can write this as:



                  (=<<) . (const . pure)


                  We can rewrite const . pure as fmap pure . const:



                  (=<<) . (fmap pure . const)


                  Now we associate again:



                  ((=<<) . fmap pure) . const


                  Since (=<<) has type



                  (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b


                  we know fmap pure must be a subtype of Monad m => c -> (a -> m b). If we unify this with it's type of



                  fmap pure :: (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a)


                  We get Monad m => (a -> b) -> (a -> m b). Meaning our functor is (a ->). Since (.) is fmap over the functor (a ->) we can replace our fmap with (.).



                  ((=<<) . (.) pure) . const


                  ((=<<) . (.) pure) is the definition for liftM1 so we can substitute:



                  liftM . const


                  And that is the goal. The two are the same.




                  1: The definition of liftM is liftM f m1 = do x1 <- m1; return (f x1) , we can desugar the do into liftM f m1 = m1 >>= return . f. We can flip the (>>=) for liftM f m1 = return . f =<< m1 and elide the m1 to get liftM f = (return . f =<<) a little pointfree magic and we get liftM = (=<<) . (.) return






                  share|improve this answer















                  Yes they are the same



                  Let's start with flip (>>) . pure, which is the pointfree version of x >> pure y you provide:



                  flip (>>) . pure


                  It is the case that flip (>>) is just (=<<) . const so we can rewrite this as:



                  ((=<<) . const) . pure


                  Since function composition ((.)) is associative we can write this as:



                  (=<<) . (const . pure)


                  We can rewrite const . pure as fmap pure . const:



                  (=<<) . (fmap pure . const)


                  Now we associate again:



                  ((=<<) . fmap pure) . const


                  Since (=<<) has type



                  (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b


                  we know fmap pure must be a subtype of Monad m => c -> (a -> m b). If we unify this with it's type of



                  fmap pure :: (Applicative f1, Functor f2) => f2 a -> f2 (f1 a)


                  We get Monad m => (a -> b) -> (a -> m b). Meaning our functor is (a ->). Since (.) is fmap over the functor (a ->) we can replace our fmap with (.).



                  ((=<<) . (.) pure) . const


                  ((=<<) . (.) pure) is the definition for liftM1 so we can substitute:



                  liftM . const


                  And that is the goal. The two are the same.




                  1: The definition of liftM is liftM f m1 = do x1 <- m1; return (f x1) , we can desugar the do into liftM f m1 = m1 >>= return . f. We can flip the (>>=) for liftM f m1 = return . f =<< m1 and elide the m1 to get liftM f = (return . f =<<) a little pointfree magic and we get liftM = (=<<) . (.) return







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 52 mins ago

























                  answered 3 hours ago









                  Sriotchilism O'ZaicSriotchilism O'Zaic

                  808620




                  808620























                      9














                      The other answer gets there eventually, but it takes a long-winded route. All that is actually needed are the definitions of liftM, const, and a single monad law: m1 >> m2 and m1 >>= _ -> m2 must be semantically identical. (Indeed, this is the default implementation of (>>), and it is rare to override it.) Then:



                      liftM (const x) y
                      = definition of liftM*
                      y >>= z -> pure (const x z)
                      = definition of const
                      y >>= z -> pure x
                      = monad law
                      y >> pure x


                      * Okay, okay, so the actual definition of liftM uses return instead of pure. Whatever.






                      share|improve this answer

























                      • Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                        – chi
                        1 hour ago






                      • 1





                        @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                        – Daniel Wagner
                        59 mins ago







                      • 1





                        That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                        – dfeuer
                        19 mins ago















                      9














                      The other answer gets there eventually, but it takes a long-winded route. All that is actually needed are the definitions of liftM, const, and a single monad law: m1 >> m2 and m1 >>= _ -> m2 must be semantically identical. (Indeed, this is the default implementation of (>>), and it is rare to override it.) Then:



                      liftM (const x) y
                      = definition of liftM*
                      y >>= z -> pure (const x z)
                      = definition of const
                      y >>= z -> pure x
                      = monad law
                      y >> pure x


                      * Okay, okay, so the actual definition of liftM uses return instead of pure. Whatever.






                      share|improve this answer

























                      • Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                        – chi
                        1 hour ago






                      • 1





                        @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                        – Daniel Wagner
                        59 mins ago







                      • 1





                        That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                        – dfeuer
                        19 mins ago













                      9












                      9








                      9







                      The other answer gets there eventually, but it takes a long-winded route. All that is actually needed are the definitions of liftM, const, and a single monad law: m1 >> m2 and m1 >>= _ -> m2 must be semantically identical. (Indeed, this is the default implementation of (>>), and it is rare to override it.) Then:



                      liftM (const x) y
                      = definition of liftM*
                      y >>= z -> pure (const x z)
                      = definition of const
                      y >>= z -> pure x
                      = monad law
                      y >> pure x


                      * Okay, okay, so the actual definition of liftM uses return instead of pure. Whatever.






                      share|improve this answer















                      The other answer gets there eventually, but it takes a long-winded route. All that is actually needed are the definitions of liftM, const, and a single monad law: m1 >> m2 and m1 >>= _ -> m2 must be semantically identical. (Indeed, this is the default implementation of (>>), and it is rare to override it.) Then:



                      liftM (const x) y
                      = definition of liftM*
                      y >>= z -> pure (const x z)
                      = definition of const
                      y >>= z -> pure x
                      = monad law
                      y >> pure x


                      * Okay, okay, so the actual definition of liftM uses return instead of pure. Whatever.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 2 hours ago

























                      answered 2 hours ago









                      Daniel WagnerDaniel Wagner

                      103k7161283




                      103k7161283












                      • Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                        – chi
                        1 hour ago






                      • 1





                        @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                        – Daniel Wagner
                        59 mins ago







                      • 1





                        That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                        – dfeuer
                        19 mins ago

















                      • Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                        – chi
                        1 hour ago






                      • 1





                        @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                        – Daniel Wagner
                        59 mins ago







                      • 1





                        That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                        – dfeuer
                        19 mins ago
















                      Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                      – chi
                      1 hour ago





                      Interesting. For some reason I thought that the standard definition was liftM = fmap, with the more restrictive type. With the real definition above, the wanted equation is much simpler to obtain :)

                      – chi
                      1 hour ago




                      1




                      1





                      @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                      – Daniel Wagner
                      59 mins ago






                      @chi Even without it things aren't too bad: fmap f m = m >>= return . f is also a monad law (one of the oft-forgotten ones).

                      – Daniel Wagner
                      59 mins ago





                      1




                      1





                      That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                      – dfeuer
                      19 mins ago





                      That law itself follows from parametricity and the monad law m >>= pure = m.

                      – dfeuer
                      19 mins ago











                      2














                      One more possible route, exploiting the applicative laws:




                      For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows [...]



                      fmap (const id) y <*> pure x



                      That amounts to...



                      fmap (const id) y <*> pure x
                      pure ($ x) <*> fmap (const id) y -- interchange law of applicatives
                      ($ x) <$> fmap (const id) y -- fmap in terms of <*>
                      fmap (($ x) . const id) y -- composition law of functors
                      fmap (const x) y


                      ... which, as you noted, is the same as liftM (const x) y.



                      That this route requires only applicative laws and not monad ones reflects how (*>) (another name for (>>)) is an Applicative method.






                      share|improve this answer





























                        2














                        One more possible route, exploiting the applicative laws:




                        For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows [...]



                        fmap (const id) y <*> pure x



                        That amounts to...



                        fmap (const id) y <*> pure x
                        pure ($ x) <*> fmap (const id) y -- interchange law of applicatives
                        ($ x) <$> fmap (const id) y -- fmap in terms of <*>
                        fmap (($ x) . const id) y -- composition law of functors
                        fmap (const x) y


                        ... which, as you noted, is the same as liftM (const x) y.



                        That this route requires only applicative laws and not monad ones reflects how (*>) (another name for (>>)) is an Applicative method.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          2












                          2








                          2







                          One more possible route, exploiting the applicative laws:




                          For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows [...]



                          fmap (const id) y <*> pure x



                          That amounts to...



                          fmap (const id) y <*> pure x
                          pure ($ x) <*> fmap (const id) y -- interchange law of applicatives
                          ($ x) <$> fmap (const id) y -- fmap in terms of <*>
                          fmap (($ x) . const id) y -- composition law of functors
                          fmap (const x) y


                          ... which, as you noted, is the same as liftM (const x) y.



                          That this route requires only applicative laws and not monad ones reflects how (*>) (another name for (>>)) is an Applicative method.






                          share|improve this answer















                          One more possible route, exploiting the applicative laws:




                          For instance I found that y >> pure x can be rewritten as follows [...]



                          fmap (const id) y <*> pure x



                          That amounts to...



                          fmap (const id) y <*> pure x
                          pure ($ x) <*> fmap (const id) y -- interchange law of applicatives
                          ($ x) <$> fmap (const id) y -- fmap in terms of <*>
                          fmap (($ x) . const id) y -- composition law of functors
                          fmap (const x) y


                          ... which, as you noted, is the same as liftM (const x) y.



                          That this route requires only applicative laws and not monad ones reflects how (*>) (another name for (>>)) is an Applicative method.







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited 14 mins ago

























                          answered 1 hour ago









                          duplodeduplode

                          23.1k44987




                          23.1k44987



























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