What killed these X2 caps?iPhone programmable capsLarge-value ceramic caps in small packages?what is the value of these capacitors?What are these capacitors?What is the difference between these circuit?what frequencies do caps filter?What are these electrolytic capacitors?Replace foil caps with ceramic caps?What is the type of these caps?Are these circuits equivalents (caps in parallel with VCC)
Assassin's bullet with mercury
Calculating entropy change: reversible vs irreversible process
Why would the Red Woman birth a shadow if she worshipped the Lord of the Light?
Is "remove commented out code" correct English?
Can compressed videos be decoded back to their uncompresed original format?
What's the in-universe reasoning behind sorcerers needing material components?
Valid term from quadratic sequence?
ssTTsSTtRrriinInnnnNNNIiinngg
What is the most common color to indicate the input-field is disabled?
Unable to supress ligatures in headings which are set in Caps
GFCI outlets - can they be repaired? Are they really needed at the end of a circuit?
What mechanic is there to disable a threat instead of killing it?
What does “the session was packed” mean in this context?
Mathematica command that allows it to read my intentions
Can I run a new neutral wire to repair a broken circuit?
Short story with a alien planet, government officials must wear exploding medallions
Detention in 1997
Should I tell management that I intend to leave due to bad software development practices?
Is it acceptable for a professor to tell male students to not think that they are smarter than female students?
How do I gain back my faith in my PhD degree?
What type of content (depth/breadth) is expected for a short presentation for Asst Professor interview in the UK?
Is it logically or scientifically possible to artificially send energy to the body?
Arrow those variables!
How dangerous is XSS?
What killed these X2 caps?
iPhone programmable capsLarge-value ceramic caps in small packages?what is the value of these capacitors?What are these capacitors?What is the difference between these circuit?what frequencies do caps filter?What are these electrolytic capacitors?Replace foil caps with ceramic caps?What is the type of these caps?Are these circuits equivalents (caps in parallel with VCC)
$begingroup$
A few years ago, I designed an MCU-controlled dimmer driving a 150W mains halogen lamp. This is in Western Europe; 50Hz 230VAC. It uses X2-rated capacitors as capacitive droppers for the power supply, and another X2-rated capacitor for interference suppression:

The dimmer has gradually started misbehaving, and on debugging I found that all of the X2 caps have died (meaning they have less than 10% of their rated capacitance remaining):

The caps in the picture:
C1, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.4nF
C2, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.9nF
C5, interference suppression, should be 100nF, measures 1.4nF
Cnew, fresh cap not from circuit, measures 93nF
All of them measure open circuit (>40MΩ) on resistance.
C1, C2, and Cnew are labeled MEX/TENTA MKP 0.1µF K X2 275VAC 40/100/21 [approval logos] EN 60384-14 01-14 250VAC; 275VAC nominal rated (significantly higher withstanding voltage, datasheet here). They are all from the same batch, bought in Sep 2016. I suspect 01-14 is a date code, so they'd be from early 2014.
C5 is from the same brand; it has virtually the same markings (except EN 132400), but is physically larger. I got it as part of some Velleman kit years ago, where it was also used as a suppression cap. No datasheet.
What caused these caps to lose their capacitance?
- Is this deterioration normal behaviour for X2 caps? The dimmer saw a lot of use, being powered for an estimated 7000 hours.
- Should I have derated the caps more? I agree 230VAC is pretty close to 275VAC, but as I understand it that is their nominal rating, and they should be able to handle transients way above that. Also, 275VAC seems by far the most common rating available on Digikey and the like.
- Am I using the capacitors wrong somehow?
- Are these capacitors from a bad brand/series/batch?
capacitor mains x-capacitor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few years ago, I designed an MCU-controlled dimmer driving a 150W mains halogen lamp. This is in Western Europe; 50Hz 230VAC. It uses X2-rated capacitors as capacitive droppers for the power supply, and another X2-rated capacitor for interference suppression:

The dimmer has gradually started misbehaving, and on debugging I found that all of the X2 caps have died (meaning they have less than 10% of their rated capacitance remaining):

The caps in the picture:
C1, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.4nF
C2, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.9nF
C5, interference suppression, should be 100nF, measures 1.4nF
Cnew, fresh cap not from circuit, measures 93nF
All of them measure open circuit (>40MΩ) on resistance.
C1, C2, and Cnew are labeled MEX/TENTA MKP 0.1µF K X2 275VAC 40/100/21 [approval logos] EN 60384-14 01-14 250VAC; 275VAC nominal rated (significantly higher withstanding voltage, datasheet here). They are all from the same batch, bought in Sep 2016. I suspect 01-14 is a date code, so they'd be from early 2014.
C5 is from the same brand; it has virtually the same markings (except EN 132400), but is physically larger. I got it as part of some Velleman kit years ago, where it was also used as a suppression cap. No datasheet.
What caused these caps to lose their capacitance?
- Is this deterioration normal behaviour for X2 caps? The dimmer saw a lot of use, being powered for an estimated 7000 hours.
- Should I have derated the caps more? I agree 230VAC is pretty close to 275VAC, but as I understand it that is their nominal rating, and they should be able to handle transients way above that. Also, 275VAC seems by far the most common rating available on Digikey and the like.
- Am I using the capacitors wrong somehow?
- Are these capacitors from a bad brand/series/batch?
capacitor mains x-capacitor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few years ago, I designed an MCU-controlled dimmer driving a 150W mains halogen lamp. This is in Western Europe; 50Hz 230VAC. It uses X2-rated capacitors as capacitive droppers for the power supply, and another X2-rated capacitor for interference suppression:

The dimmer has gradually started misbehaving, and on debugging I found that all of the X2 caps have died (meaning they have less than 10% of their rated capacitance remaining):

The caps in the picture:
C1, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.4nF
C2, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.9nF
C5, interference suppression, should be 100nF, measures 1.4nF
Cnew, fresh cap not from circuit, measures 93nF
All of them measure open circuit (>40MΩ) on resistance.
C1, C2, and Cnew are labeled MEX/TENTA MKP 0.1µF K X2 275VAC 40/100/21 [approval logos] EN 60384-14 01-14 250VAC; 275VAC nominal rated (significantly higher withstanding voltage, datasheet here). They are all from the same batch, bought in Sep 2016. I suspect 01-14 is a date code, so they'd be from early 2014.
C5 is from the same brand; it has virtually the same markings (except EN 132400), but is physically larger. I got it as part of some Velleman kit years ago, where it was also used as a suppression cap. No datasheet.
What caused these caps to lose their capacitance?
- Is this deterioration normal behaviour for X2 caps? The dimmer saw a lot of use, being powered for an estimated 7000 hours.
- Should I have derated the caps more? I agree 230VAC is pretty close to 275VAC, but as I understand it that is their nominal rating, and they should be able to handle transients way above that. Also, 275VAC seems by far the most common rating available on Digikey and the like.
- Am I using the capacitors wrong somehow?
- Are these capacitors from a bad brand/series/batch?
capacitor mains x-capacitor
$endgroup$
A few years ago, I designed an MCU-controlled dimmer driving a 150W mains halogen lamp. This is in Western Europe; 50Hz 230VAC. It uses X2-rated capacitors as capacitive droppers for the power supply, and another X2-rated capacitor for interference suppression:

The dimmer has gradually started misbehaving, and on debugging I found that all of the X2 caps have died (meaning they have less than 10% of their rated capacitance remaining):

The caps in the picture:
C1, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.4nF
C2, capacitive dropper, should be 100nF, measures 6.9nF
C5, interference suppression, should be 100nF, measures 1.4nF
Cnew, fresh cap not from circuit, measures 93nF
All of them measure open circuit (>40MΩ) on resistance.
C1, C2, and Cnew are labeled MEX/TENTA MKP 0.1µF K X2 275VAC 40/100/21 [approval logos] EN 60384-14 01-14 250VAC; 275VAC nominal rated (significantly higher withstanding voltage, datasheet here). They are all from the same batch, bought in Sep 2016. I suspect 01-14 is a date code, so they'd be from early 2014.
C5 is from the same brand; it has virtually the same markings (except EN 132400), but is physically larger. I got it as part of some Velleman kit years ago, where it was also used as a suppression cap. No datasheet.
What caused these caps to lose their capacitance?
- Is this deterioration normal behaviour for X2 caps? The dimmer saw a lot of use, being powered for an estimated 7000 hours.
- Should I have derated the caps more? I agree 230VAC is pretty close to 275VAC, but as I understand it that is their nominal rating, and they should be able to handle transients way above that. Also, 275VAC seems by far the most common rating available on Digikey and the like.
- Am I using the capacitors wrong somehow?
- Are these capacitors from a bad brand/series/batch?
capacitor mains x-capacitor
capacitor mains x-capacitor
edited 25 mins ago
marcelm
asked 1 hour ago
marcelmmarcelm
1,3721716
1,3721716
1
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The film capacitors are made to be "self healing" which just means that when they develop a short due to abuse the area around the short gets blown away, reducing the capacitance.
It appears your application has frequent transients either from within or without that exceed the design capability of the capacitors. You can try to track them down at the source, attempt to shunt them with something like a bipolar TVS across the caps, or buy better (higher voltage rated) capacitors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
StackExchange.schematics.init();
);
, "cicuitlab");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "135"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f430568%2fwhat-killed-these-x2-caps%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The film capacitors are made to be "self healing" which just means that when they develop a short due to abuse the area around the short gets blown away, reducing the capacitance.
It appears your application has frequent transients either from within or without that exceed the design capability of the capacitors. You can try to track them down at the source, attempt to shunt them with something like a bipolar TVS across the caps, or buy better (higher voltage rated) capacitors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The film capacitors are made to be "self healing" which just means that when they develop a short due to abuse the area around the short gets blown away, reducing the capacitance.
It appears your application has frequent transients either from within or without that exceed the design capability of the capacitors. You can try to track them down at the source, attempt to shunt them with something like a bipolar TVS across the caps, or buy better (higher voltage rated) capacitors.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The film capacitors are made to be "self healing" which just means that when they develop a short due to abuse the area around the short gets blown away, reducing the capacitance.
It appears your application has frequent transients either from within or without that exceed the design capability of the capacitors. You can try to track them down at the source, attempt to shunt them with something like a bipolar TVS across the caps, or buy better (higher voltage rated) capacitors.
$endgroup$
The film capacitors are made to be "self healing" which just means that when they develop a short due to abuse the area around the short gets blown away, reducing the capacitance.
It appears your application has frequent transients either from within or without that exceed the design capability of the capacitors. You can try to track them down at the source, attempt to shunt them with something like a bipolar TVS across the caps, or buy better (higher voltage rated) capacitors.
answered 1 hour ago
Spehro PefhanySpehro Pefhany
212k5162428
212k5162428
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f430568%2fwhat-killed-these-x2-caps%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
Western Europe is 50 Hz, not 60 Hz.
$endgroup$
– Transistor
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Transistor Of course! I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed 60Hz... Thanks and fixed!
$endgroup$
– marcelm
25 mins ago