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Deal with toxic manager when you can't quit
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InHow to write an appealing internship offer?How to handle a manager constantly demotivating youHow can I get unbiased and objective feedback when my manager is a friend of mine?Manager got offended with my correction. How to deal with him?How to deal with a new manager falling behind on his dutiesWhat to tell the senior staff about dietary restrictions of my team, for a welcome party?How to handle deteriorating situation with manager?New manager is a jerk - is it OK to quit without providing a reason?Should I call out a toxic manager by name on Glassdoor?Potential client has a problematic employee I can't work with
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At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.
This reached the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three months I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 people), and was getting close to drive the rest of the team to quit.
To give a perspective of why he was toxic :
- Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"
- Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) staying overtime trying to make things right (We once had to wait for 3 weeks, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
- Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
At the time, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to leave without too many consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.
This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?
As suggested a little more precision on the situation :
This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developers is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.
In France, when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you are let go.
Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.
manager stress france
|
show 11 more comments
At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.
This reached the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three months I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 people), and was getting close to drive the rest of the team to quit.
To give a perspective of why he was toxic :
- Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"
- Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) staying overtime trying to make things right (We once had to wait for 3 weeks, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
- Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
At the time, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to leave without too many consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.
This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?
As suggested a little more precision on the situation :
This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developers is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.
In France, when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you are let go.
Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.
manager stress france
4
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
34
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
3
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
10
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
2
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.
This reached the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three months I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 people), and was getting close to drive the rest of the team to quit.
To give a perspective of why he was toxic :
- Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"
- Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) staying overtime trying to make things right (We once had to wait for 3 weeks, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
- Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
At the time, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to leave without too many consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.
This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?
As suggested a little more precision on the situation :
This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developers is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.
In France, when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you are let go.
Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.
manager stress france
At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.
This reached the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three months I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 people), and was getting close to drive the rest of the team to quit.
To give a perspective of why he was toxic :
- Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"
- Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) staying overtime trying to make things right (We once had to wait for 3 weeks, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
- Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
At the time, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to leave without too many consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.
This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?
As suggested a little more precision on the situation :
This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developers is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.
In France, when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you are let go.
Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.
manager stress france
manager stress france
edited 1 hour ago
Mefitico
9211415
9211415
asked 13 hours ago
user3399user3399
28436
28436
4
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
34
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
3
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
10
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
2
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
4
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
34
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
3
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
10
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
2
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago
4
4
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
34
34
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
3
3
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
10
10
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
2
2
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).
Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.
In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:
Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"
- Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines
- Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay
- Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.
- If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.
He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.
@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".
2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.
My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.
add a comment |
I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.
The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.
add a comment |
The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.
For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".
Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.
That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.
This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.
The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".
And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!
For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.
add a comment |
I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).
The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.
My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.
Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?
A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.
The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.
Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.
add a comment |
Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.
Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).
Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.
In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:
Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"
- Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines
- Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay
- Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.
- If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).
Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.
In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:
Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"
- Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines
- Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay
- Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.
- If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).
Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.
In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:
Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"
- Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines
- Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay
- Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.
- If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)
First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).
Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.
In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:
Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"
- Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines
- Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay
- Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.
- If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)
answered 13 hours ago
Dan PichelmanDan Pichelman
28.9k147894
28.9k147894
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
8
8
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.
– user3399
13 hours ago
4
4
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
1
1
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.
– Dan Pichelman
13 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.
– Ister
10 hours ago
2
2
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
@DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.
– user71659
9 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.
He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.
@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
add a comment |
To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.
He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.
@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
add a comment |
To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.
He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.
@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.
To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.
He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.
@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
gnasher729gnasher729
91.5k42163287
91.5k42163287
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
add a comment |
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
7
7
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.
– Strader
13 hours ago
8
8
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.
– busman
12 hours ago
2
2
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!
– Koray Tugay
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
+1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.
– Mark Rogers
9 hours ago
1
1
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
@Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.
– Derek Elkins
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".
2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.
My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.
add a comment |
1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".
2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.
My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.
add a comment |
1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".
2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.
My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.
1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".
2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.
My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.
answered 9 hours ago
Ertai87Ertai87
13k41635
13k41635
add a comment |
add a comment |
I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.
The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.
add a comment |
I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.
The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.
add a comment |
I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.
The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.
I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.
The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.
answered 9 hours ago
dmoore1181dmoore1181
1414
1414
add a comment |
add a comment |
The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.
For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".
Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.
That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.
This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.
The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.
For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".
Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.
That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.
This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.
The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.
For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".
Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.
That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.
This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.
The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.
The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.
For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".
Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.
That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.
This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.
The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
SteveSteve
3,483722
3,483722
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).
– Ister
10 hours ago
3
3
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.
– donjuedo
10 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
@Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.
– Steve
9 hours ago
4
4
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
@Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.
– donjuedo
9 hours ago
3
3
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
@Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.
– acidnbass
9 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".
And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!
For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.
add a comment |
Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".
And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!
For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.
add a comment |
Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".
And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!
For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.
Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).
There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".
And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!
For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.
Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.
Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.
answered 6 hours ago
GrahamGraham
3,9601719
3,9601719
add a comment |
add a comment |
I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).
The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.
My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.
Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?
A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.
The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.
Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.
add a comment |
I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).
The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.
My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.
Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?
A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.
The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.
Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.
add a comment |
I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).
The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.
My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.
Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?
A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.
The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.
Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.
I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).
The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.
My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.
Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?
A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.
The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.
Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.
answered 7 hours ago
Derek ElkinsDerek Elkins
73449
73449
add a comment |
add a comment |
Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.
Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.
Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.
Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.
Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.
Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.
answered 8 hours ago
MonoandaleMonoandale
3,38252257
3,38252257
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
add a comment |
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
10
10
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
This can go wrong in so many ways.
– Colin 't Hart
8 hours ago
1
1
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
1
1
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
upvote for the lolz, though.
– Mefitico
7 hours ago
4
4
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.
– catfood
7 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
Bahaha I love this answer
– goblin
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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4
Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.
– Xander
12 hours ago
34
So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.
– only_pro
10 hours ago
3
@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.
– JMac
8 hours ago
10
@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D
– only_pro
8 hours ago
2
@JMac How do you go from "toxic is being used figuratively" to "literally means figuratively"? I don't think that follows logically, and I don't think it's true. "literally" is being used to apply emphasis, same as if you said "I have a really toxic manager" or "I have an extremely toxic manager". Just because "toxic" is figurative doesn't mean "extremely means figuratively".
– DarthFennec
5 hours ago